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Two suction-dredge busts

gavin		Posted : Saturday, 30 April 2016 10:43:26 AM(UTC)
Rank: Gold Ingot Groups: Administrators, Registered Joined: 20/02/2010(UTC) Posts: 1,326 Location: Christchurch Thanks: 736 times Was thanked: 535 time(s) in 287 post(s)		Two illegal South Island suction gold dredge operators could be looking at jail time or fines up to $400,000, following a sweep of the South Island by Government permitting agency New Zealand Petroleum and Minerals (NZPM)... http://www.odt.co.nz/news/business/381493/two-suction-dredge-busts
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LBD		Posted : Saturday, 30 April 2016 11:58:45 AM(UTC)
Rank: Gold Ingot Groups: Registered Joined: 2/06/2012(UTC) Posts: 101 Location: PhuBia...for a change Thanks: 22 times Was thanked: 43 time(s) in 33 post(s)		Originally Posted by: gavin Two illegal South Island suction gold dredge operators could be looking at jail time or fines up to $400,000, following a sweep of the South Island by Government permitting agency New Zealand Petroleum and Minerals (NZPM)... http://www.odt.co.nz/news/business/381493/two-suction-dredge-busts Thanks Gavin About time too.... these guys will know the rules, anyone in todays world using a powered dredge will have researched the subject... and it is not as if these are new laws or anything.........getting and working your own claim has been the law for a couple of centuries now. I am not into dobbing people in, unless they are poaching on my, or a friends claim, in which case I front them up, or point out the law to them. But it does irk me that I follow the rules, pay fees, insurances, consents and access agreements... while others blatantly ignore all the rules. Feigning ignorance is no excuse either... try using that as an excuse to get out of a speeding fine or liability for an accident.

Oceania		Posted : Saturday, 30 April 2016 2:49:24 PM(UTC)
Rank: Gold Dust Groups: Registered Joined: 30/04/2016(UTC) Posts: 0 Location: Moscow Was thanked: 5 time(s) in 2 post(s)		Originally Posted by: LBD Originally Posted by: gavin Two illegal South Island suction gold dredge operators could be looking at jail time or fines up to $400,000, following a sweep of the South Island by Government permitting agency New Zealand Petroleum and Minerals (NZPM)... http://www.odt.co.nz/news/business/381493/two-suction-dredge-busts Thanks Gavin About time too.... these guys will know the rules, anyone in todays world using a powered dredge will have researched the subject... and it is not as if these are new laws or anything.........getting and working your own claim has been the law for a couple of centuries now. I am not into dobbing people in, unless they are poaching on my, or a friends claim, in which case I front them up, or point out the law to them. But it does irk me that I follow the rules, pay fees, insurances, consents and access agreements... while others blatantly ignore all the rules. Feigning ignorance is no excuse either... try using that as an excuse to get out of a speeding fine or liability for an accident. Ignorance? There is a lot of that about. It is a bit of a sin really. Actually this is only half the story, depending upon whose Rules you use. Victorian Rules? For centuries, it has been free enterprise - the concept of claims is a recent invention. Sorry. Recently, New Zealanders have lost the Prospectors Right - of a Miners Right. No one whimpered at its passing .. and the Sheep kept grazing. Curiously, NZP&M has gotten into trouble selling Platinum resources, as well as placing large area off limit for 'private resource surveys' ... outside of its own Rules. How does that work - legally? Morally? It doesn't. It functions to keep small timers outside of the development of NZ minerals by other players. Changing the rules, without consultation, and in many cases illegally .. well - the government doesn't have much room to stand on. In a lengthy conversation with NZP&M not so long ago, they mentioned wanting to do away with the administrative paper work of 'claims' and then let the small players have a 'free for all'. So there you have it. Free for all indeed. Yes, there were some blacksanders that were squealing. It wasn't so long ago that DOC was torn asunder by a review of harassment of gold miners in Otago ... and an understanding - or tactic agreement was entered into about dredging, hose size and horse power. The ORC has kept to this agreement. DOC, and the Crown Minerals people - have not! They have reneged on their obligations! Not a peep in the media about this. Why is that? Then for the modern miner there are the DOC access agreements, the LINZ rentals and insurance .. the poor hobbyist and professional miner will find his days numbered soon! Well, we just heard that in the ODT today. But we have heard that before. So lets ask some really interesting questions about who owns what in NZ, and why certain groups want it for themselves. Ever been mining on property with Victorian Title? Better have a read on who owns what. I think people need to spend more time understanding how miners and prospecting citizens have had their rights stolen from them, and their traditional practices made politically incorrect- to say the least. At the end of the day - Follow the money. Gold and minerals is a big boys game - and New Zealanders are not invited. Articles in the media about bad people suction dredging (except for claim jumping!) is another way of educating the Sheep into a more conformist 'baaa!'. DOC, the Police and NZP&M had better pray it doesn't go to court ... for their real sins will find them out. Edited by user Saturday, 30 April 2016 2:56:19 PM(UTC) \| Reason: Not specified

GoldPandemic		Posted : Saturday, 30 April 2016 7:37:58 PM(UTC)
Rank: Gold Ingot Medals: Groups: Registered Joined: 27/10/2014(UTC) Posts: 350 Location: Auckland Thanks: 266 times Was thanked: 141 time(s) in 102 post(s)		Once I stayed at a large inner city hostel. They had a strictly no alcohol policy; however EVERYONE drank, also placing their empties into the prominent recycle bins. The cleaners saw all the full & empty bottles within rooms. A room mate explained it to me this way: The policy is there to moderate the drinking, and allow them a means to punish those who get out of control. It's not really a ban. I imagine the "no gold panning" policy operates under the same guise. Otherwise we might see foreign slaves who cannot speak english imported for the sole purpose of gold panning enmass! I doubt a gold panner will be arrested or fined by a Doc worker in the middle of the bush. Unless there is evidence of wanton destruction of land (more than what a river flood does.)
		Treasure/coins: $1 Other artifacts: 1888 button Lead: 914g Copper: 46

NUGGY		Posted : Saturday, 30 April 2016 11:34:15 PM(UTC)
Rank: Gold Ingot Groups: Registered Joined: 20/07/2012(UTC) Posts: 267 Location: greymouth Thanks: 85 times Was thanked: 76 time(s) in 58 post(s)		Don't move that rock - you might disturb a bug! Or more worrying - find some gold that their corporations might one day want. Unfair laws that exclude those without money from our commonly owned resources deserve to be ignored.

element111		Posted : Sunday, 1 May 2016 1:02:16 AM(UTC)
Rank: Gold Ingot Groups: Registered Joined: 2/12/2011(UTC) Posts: 114 Location: blenheim Thanks: 49 times Was thanked: 34 time(s) in 21 post(s)		Great to see they are finally doing something about it, we don't spend huge amounts of money for claims for other people to just come in and take the gold, the person sneaking up one of our claims better stop now that nzpam and the police are doing something about it......

kiwikeith		Posted : Sunday, 1 May 2016 11:22:20 AM(UTC)
Rank: Gold Ingot Medals: Groups: Registered Joined: 28/06/2011(UTC) Posts: 648 Location: hector Thanks: 359 times Was thanked: 230 time(s) in 154 post(s)		its funny how so many poach with their dredges and yet no one is prepared to comment to much , including me. big bust on the coast and in typical doc fashion leave it till late in the season when most have given up for the season. I for one is not going to complain as I sneaked under the radar I hope the poacher where I was poaching got caught

element111		Posted : Sunday, 1 May 2016 1:46:49 PM(UTC)
Rank: Gold Ingot Groups: Registered Joined: 2/12/2011(UTC) Posts: 114 Location: blenheim Thanks: 49 times Was thanked: 34 time(s) in 21 post(s)		It's good to see that they are acknowledging that there is illegal miners out there (they caught one with $60000 worth of gold and dredging by torch).... He obviously knows the law, $10000 would set you up the permit doc access and resource consent

Oceania		Posted : Sunday, 1 May 2016 5:58:49 PM(UTC)
Rank: Gold Dust Groups: Registered Joined: 30/04/2016(UTC) Posts: 0 Location: Moscow Was thanked: 5 time(s) in 2 post(s)		It is illegal to mine on another persons claim, without permission. Public access claims are a grey area, due to previous suction dredging rules. I know of a DOC officer dredging last weekend. Why is that? I would publically like to know, how many permits NZPM have declined, after leading applicants up the creek in a costly way - only to decline their applications? I personally was told they would refuse one of my applications because they didn't like the way a dredge was going to be used. With that 'hint' I have not finished that application. Far be it from me to point out that the process is not fair, not open to investigation - and may I say it - corrupt? I know of another claim holder that was tricked out of their claim by - NZPM ... when a big fat prospecting application was pending for a Foreign Company. I would invite NZPM online here to discuss these things publically. Oh, and I would like to thank private land holders who let miners onto their lands, and waterways - to mine. There are a few people with claims on private lands, who can no longer access their claims, for various reasons. Doesn't matter if you have NZPM and the Police behind you. You aren't getting on. What good is your claim? Nothing ... worth NOTHING. A timely reminder to some Crowing about poachers - when they themselves also poach outside of their permits.

gavin		Posted : Sunday, 1 May 2016 7:19:53 PM(UTC)
Rank: Gold Ingot Groups: Administrators, Registered Joined: 20/02/2010(UTC) Posts: 1,326 Location: Christchurch Thanks: 736 times Was thanked: 535 time(s) in 287 post(s)		Someone gave me a little background info about the article in the paper... "That photo is of 2 dredges - a 2" keene and a homemade 5" they had been going hard in the free fossicking area on the Louie up the Howard valley. They had stripped, sluiced and dredged about 50 m of river bank to bank. Must have been operating over or around Easter." "Pretty impressive work for just a couple of people though. Winches, bars and sluice nozzles. Major work, they really knew what they were doing. They were doing far more than I am allowed to do on my own claim and blatantly doing it on a site set aside for recreational fossicking."
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element111		Posted : Sunday, 1 May 2016 8:30:42 PM(UTC)
Rank: Gold Ingot Groups: Registered Joined: 2/12/2011(UTC) Posts: 114 Location: blenheim Thanks: 49 times Was thanked: 34 time(s) in 21 post(s)		Originally Posted by: Oceania It is illegal to mine on another persons claim, without permission. Public access claims are a grey area, due to previous suction dredging rules. I know of a DOC officer dredging last weekend. Why is that? I would publically like to know, how many permits NZPM have declined, after leading applicants up the creek in a costly way - only to decline their applications? I personally was told they would refuse one of my applications because they didn't like the way a dredge was going to be used. With that 'hint' I have not finished that application. Far be it from me to point out that the process is not fair, not open to investigation - and may I say it - corrupt? I know of another claim holder that was tricked out of their claim by - NZPM ... when a big fat prospecting application was pending for a Foreign Company. I would invite NZPM online here to discuss these things publically. Oh, and I would like to thank private land holders who let miners onto their lands, and waterways - to mine. There are a few people with claims on private lands, who can no longer access their claims, for various reasons. Doesn't matter if you have NZPM and the Police behind you. You aren't getting on. What good is your claim? Nothing ... worth NOTHING. A timely reminder to some Crowing about poachers - when they themselves also poach outside of their permits. Nzpam isn't the hard part, they will give you the claim if it is complete and not having ridiculous work programmes, if your claim is on private land you can go to a mediation with nzpam and the council to sort out the resource consents and access.... and if someone has already put an application in for say a prospecting permit before you it's just bad luck that you didn't get in first... If the nzpam decided to not grant your application you have a meeting with them and do what they want to get it granted...