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kiwisouth  
Posted : Saturday, 12 June 2010 5:55:30 PM(UTC)
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Oh well, another weekend at home. Thought I would be able to get down the Buller when I took my mother in law back to Murchison tomorrow, but no! Wife taking her back instead. One small glitch in my plan. I'm on call and can't be away more than 30 minutes from work. Buggggggar!

Oh well, have to wait for the school holidays now and try to get a day away.

Hope everyone else is doing ok, what crap weather,. At least there will be more flood gold about. Great to see membership growing nicely.
Nulli Illigitimi Carborundum
roman holiday  
Posted : Tuesday, 15 June 2010 10:44:14 AM(UTC)
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hi ks,....I've heard a bit mentioned about "flood gold". And yet I've also heard gold is a "non-renewable" resource, once its found it doesn't replace itself. Have you found that after flooding, you have been able to find gold where it wasn't found before?

regards, and better luck with your plans next time~

kiwisouth  
Posted : Wednesday, 16 June 2010 10:17:25 AM(UTC)
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Gidday to you.

Big gold isn't going to renewed, unless there has been an earthquake or land slip then you never know. New pockets may be opened up. Areas where I go though, the rivers are always moving gold about the place. I can empty out a crevice then go back after a flood or two has been through and quite ofetn I will find more. Some of the beachy areas on the Buller for example are always being renewed. The question is though, where is this new stuff coming from originally? Wouldn't we all like know?

If you look at where rivers are now and compare them with where rivers might have run their course eons ago, there has to be some movement from the old course to the current. All depends on how much work was done by our predecessors and how much work we want to put into it I suppose. Bit like fishing, sometimes it's the hunt. I get all motivated to get the detector out everytimer I get my newsletter from the Te Tahi Detector club, so part of the fun is preparation.

Back soon

Dave
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criticol  
Posted : Saturday, 19 June 2010 3:34:13 PM(UTC)
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Hello all.
Regarding the perplexing matter of gold formation, and how does it seem to renew supplies of itself in supposedly worked out areas.

Who knows how gold was actually created in the first instance!

Did it just appear as a “Singularity”, as “Perfect” gold ,without any other make-up in its consistency whatsoever, or, was it composed through “Nuclear” processes from a combination of essential ingredients that just happened to be floating around in a fissionable/fusionable sea of electronic particles?
If it did not appear as a singularity, then it “Must” consist of two or more components. This begs the question of what components could possibly make gold as we know it today?
And does it actually “Renew” itself to replace its supplies in worked out areas?

The above makes a very intriguing subject to contemplate.(if your interested of course), but somebody on the forum did ask a sort of comparable question!

O.K.
First we have to realize that the Alluvial gold which is gathered from rivers (or anywhere that a river existed in the past) was not actually “Formed” within or by any of the rivers resources. Any gold within a river was firstly deposited into the river by being eroded away from some sort of gold bearing volcanic “Primary” source (usually a group of Quartz reefs or veins somewhere along its course.) because somewhere along the paths that lead to these reefs the gold was transported to the rivers channel by the rain waters shed down the sides of the hills that contained the reef/s.

What was the “Origin” of this gold that was contained within the reefs?
(My personal opinion is gathered from intensive research into this happening, which points to the entrapment off extremely fine gold particles in the first instance, within a mineral called “Pyroxene”, a small, usually green colored glassy looking mineral which is prominent in most volcanic magmas.)
But that’s just my theory.

The Pyroxenes are a group of important rock-forming Silicates found in many igneous and metamorphic rocks. They share a common structure, and most of the “Common” minerals can occur in them. They are early-forming minerals that crystallized before the lava erupted. The Upper Mantle of the Earth is mainly composed of Olivines and Pyroxenes, a good host rock of which is “Basalt”.
Basalt which erupts into the open air forms three distinct types of lava flows, or volcanic deposits: Scoria, Ash (or cinder) and Breccias.
Basalt is one of the most common rock types in the world, and is most typical in igneous areas They are most important within metamorphic areas, and they also weather fairly fast.
Second O.K.
Sea water contains extremely fine gold particles in suspension. This also infers that it is trapped and contained within the sediments that settle and cover the oceans bottom over the millenniums, where extreme pressure compresses it into a sort of sedimentary mudstone rock.
Now comes the interesting part!
At some future point in time, and long after this sedimentary rock is formed, molten magma eats its way up from the depths of the earth under these great sheets of mudrock and basically gobbles them up within itself carrying all the constituent parts(including the gold) of this rock upwards to the surface of the earth where it is erupted in the spewing fury of a possible land forming, and mountain forming Vulcanism.

Note that when this mudstone melts completely, it too becomes magma, and when this magma solidifies it becomes an “Igneous” rock

This molten sedimentary “mudrock” when it reforms, hardens to an “Igneous” rock within the ground or elsewhere. It is now called “Shale” which contains approx 95% of the Carbonaceous organic matter that originally exists in all sedimentary rocks. Shales also contain lots of Clay materials (or volcanic ash), termed “Greywacke”’ plus quartz grains (or silica). Their typical colour is Grey.
(Clay itself is a known filtration mineral for the precipitation of gold)

The geological term for this change is termed “Low grade Regional Metamorphism”. (which basically means altered by heat and pressure in the place of deposition.)
So from starting with a single “Shale Parent” rock-form, this type of metamorphism produces a series of different rock formations that alter from Shale, to Slate, to Phyllite, to Schist, and finally to Gneiss. ( its sort of a bit unimaginable that all these different rock types can emanate from one and the same sedimentary parent mudstone type formation.

(South Island members take note of this rock sequence, as you have got “All” of these rocks in your gold bearing areas.)

This process of metamorphism teaches us how many of the best known differing rock formations on earth were formed

Third O.K.
By understanding the above sequence of events, we also have to realize the extremely possible chances that these different rock types have of containing some of the gold that was dissolved in the sea water that originally permeated through these mudrocks when situated on the sea bottom, and is locked up in their constituent parts which are now exposed to the “Atmospheric” conditions which prevail upon the surface of this earth. These, conditions are in a continual operation of creating a process of “Weathering” which dissolves and destroys the structures of all land forms. This includes the usually mountainous regions where the reefs etc are predominantly situated.
It is mainly by this system of weathering, that all the different alkaline and acidic chemicals, plus waters that preside within the earth and above it to the limits of the troposphere, that help to re-dissolve those fine golden particles from the “Shales” First. and deposit these into the “Slates”, and from them into the “Phyllites“, to the “Schists“, and finally to the “Gneiss”, or some of the other rock forms that may intrude into each and every one of them. (Slates are typically associated with Major Mountain building events when Shales or clay rich sandstones (Greywackes) undergo “Low” grade regional metamorphism.)

All these different metamorphosed rock forms have usually been subjected to what they call “Tectonic” fracturing (sometimes more than once, by some sorts of events like more volcanic eruptions, or earth shudders like earthquakes etc.) after they were formed, and these events cause extensive fracturing called Faults, and where these faults are very numerous within an area that has been subjected to volcanic actions, then, that is where gold is most likely to be found.
These faults create open channels that seem to be very favorable for the deposition of Quartzes and Calcites etc, as the Vulcanism wanes and cools down from its initial fiery start, and begins to enter its “Hydrothermal” sequences of boiling waters, accompanied by the lessening of the heat and pressures.
These events are mainly confined within the open fault channels, but which in a “Major” way also dissolves and leaches the surrounding country rocks of their contained minerals and metals etc, which migrate into those open channels where they re-Crystalize and contribute to filling the channels up with themselves.
As this sequence of events continues, it tends to block and close the fault channels up with precipitated materials as the waters continues to cool and dissipate the heat from the Hydrothermal actions during these depositions.
The minerals and metals carried into these fault zones precipitate out with the quartz or calcite into reefs etc which then contain varying amounts of any minerals or metals that were present in the surrounding country rocks that were subjected to the hydrothermal actions, and it is these that get weathered out to the relevant waterways of the area. As long as the hills contain vestiges of these reefs, the gold etc will continue to be shed into the rivers etc.

Note that if this reef gold has made its way into a river in times gone past, and has been river deposited in a placer gold situation, this deposit of gold may have been left high and dry at some point as a terrace/bench deposit as the river has cut its bed lower into the landscape, or it may have been uplifted to its present position high above the river by other traumatic earth actions. In this case, it is possible that this already deposited gold can begin another journey on its way to the sea by the rain/flood/landslip or earthquake actions that contribute to the redistribution and deposits of the contents somewhere further down the river.

How’s that for a thesis/theory/explanation/ or just a lot of codswallop.
Cheers--- Colin.

kiwijw  
Posted : Sunday, 20 June 2010 10:47:26 AM(UTC)
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Edited by user Saturday, 9 July 2011 1:37:46 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

criticol  
Posted : Sunday, 20 June 2010 4:12:34 PM(UTC)
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Hi there Criticol,
Many thanks for your lengthy geological explaination. Very well put & great effort. There is a lot of food for thought amongst all that for members & I am sure it will have a few scratching their heads as well.
Generally gold will not be transported down a creek, stream or water course during normal water flow but only during fast, turbulant & aggresive water movement during flood conditions. The more aggresive the flood the more the gold will be pushed around & redistributed through out the stream bed material.
Naturaly it takes a very fast current to push around large pieces of gold due to it weight. What is generaly refered to as "flood gold" it the finer flakes & lighter gold that during a flood it tossed about & mixed up with the lose gravel material of a stream & is usualy in the top 6-12 inches. This type of gold will be pushed around by a stream even in mild flood as the material it is mixed up in is pretty lose & reasonably easy for a slight flow increase to move on.
The heavier gold needs a lot more flow pressure to move & the bigger gold has generally moved on down to the very bedrock bottom of a stream & often gets caught up in the cracks & crevices of the bed rock bottom & once it drops in to a crack or crevice is often there until some one comes across it to free it or a major flood actualy tears the bedrock lose so the gold can carry on with its down stream journey until get gets trapped by something else.
During flood conditions, heavy rain, water wash offs down mountain sides, slips of land into the stream & washed out banks as the stream cuts into them as the water tries to cut as straight a path as it can during its mad dash down stream to the sea. Gold that has rested in these above normal (today) water flow areas since they were deposited there by either a retreating glacier or as has been mentiond a now high & dry old river bed that has been pushed up by land upheaval, is now washed back into the present stream & so added to the stream bed material. That is where the flood gold generaly comes from & why after each flood gold reappears in spots that have been worked out. Gold that is still in the stream is just redeposited too as it is washed on down stream during a flood only to drop out in low water pressure areas as the water flow from the flood drops & losses its push to carry on moving the gold.
So a river with a large catchment area & many little tributries adding to it in gold bearing areas will "live" for a long time with flood gold for the above reasons. The Shotover in central otago is a prime example as is the Arrow on a smaller scale.

Happy hunting

JW :)







Hello John.

Your so right, it takes “Extreme” flood conditions to move larger and heavier chunks of gold further down a river from where they may be lodged.

So people, read this again and it will hope fully convey an idea of where you really should be searching for this larger chunky gold.----------------------- “Up towards” the heads of the water- sheds, Of course.

John, thanks for the follow up explanations, between them, they should be most informative to newer members ( and hopefully offer a few little tips to others who are a bit more experienced) as to where/how they may locate a suitable place to start their fossickings, if they are after placer deposits of gold, etc.
By the same token it does not mean that the fossicker is strictly limited to those areas that have produced gold in the past, even if all those spots seem to have been discovered and well worked before, Because these places are the “Second” best bet to locating something worth while crowing about.
Persons need to look For anywhere that water (mainly), has transported surface ground materials from a geological area and delivered these into the river systems, (like those types of rock formations mentioned in my previous post) and to which you have just alluded to in your post about working “Shist” tailing heaps.

A person needs to keep tucked in the back of their mind that the old methods of minings involved a series of “Rushes” to different parts/spots. Meaning that if a report of a new discovery was made, the old miners uped tools, left their grounds and rushed to where the discovery may have been made, (even though they may have been doing ok where they were) you know the old saying that “The grass always seems to be greener on the other side of the fence” and so they deserted good paying grounds in the hopes of obtaining a “Bigger” strike/stake/return somewhere else, so quite a few very good areas remain forgotten about and un-worked today. The trick is to find and locate them, and in this respect research certainly takes the number one spot, because “Names” and map delinerations and demarcations have changed since then. (I.e. the old miners often named a spot one thing, but more modern cartographers had their own ideas.)
Anyway its good to discuss different methods and things, (keeps the old gray matter in top gear.) as anything thrown into a mix can change the outcome/outlook and maybe provide a better way of doing things etc.

Cheers--- Colin. : )

This machine has got a mind of its own sometimes as if keeps turning the word fossickers into “fascicle”. <<< it just done it again!!!!! Damn.)

P.S. John I notice that your home is in my area, so we may inadvertently catch up one day.
kiwisouth  
Posted : Sunday, 20 June 2010 4:50:47 PM(UTC)
kiwisouth

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Thanks evryone for carrying this topic on. All I said was, I was stuck at home. Same this weekend too. Oh well.

Murchison is a very interesting place geologically, even without the earthquakes. I have geological survey map of the area and much of it is glacial or used to be under the sea. So there are minerals galore. Down the gorge a few years ago, there was a minor rush on for uranium of all things but the amounts found weren't economic. Leave it to our Australian cousins to have lots. Lucky them.

The rivers do have some extreme floods, I have taken a few photos and little movies of the Mangles in flood and at times you can hear the rocks moving. Love that river.

So I have to wait for the July School Holidays so I may be able to get down the rivers when we go take the kids to their grand mother. Take my wet weathers I think and my new sluice box

Take care folks. Stay legal

David
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x-terra steve  
Posted : Sunday, 20 June 2010 5:27:09 PM(UTC)
x-terra steve

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Hi JW,Colin & Co,

Thanks for the great input as I recound we all have learn't a thing or to.
It sure is the one of the wounders of our world...
Happy detecting

Steve
criticol  
Posted : Monday, 21 June 2010 8:18:23 AM(UTC)
criticol

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Hi Dave.

Dave, when I said "Extreme" floods, I really meant"EXTREME" floods!
Like those that they call "Once in a hundred year ones" but maybe even these are not ferocious enough to shift the bigger hunks of gold.
Mind you, if a large serious "Blockage" occured somewhere up towards the headwaters of the river were to form a lake like scenario for a while, and was to then suddenly collapse sending a wall of water down the creek,then this event could be furious enough to shift some good gold to a new more easily obtainable place

Cheers---Colin.
kiwisouth  
Posted : Monday, 21 June 2010 10:09:42 AM(UTC)
kiwisouth

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Tha last big earthquake in Murchison, 1969 I think, manged to cause a slip which blocked the Buller river for a while. Loved to have been there then. Lots of people risked their lives before the slip gave way, which it did in the end. Now that would have been exciting
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criticol  
Posted : Monday, 21 June 2010 2:49:16 PM(UTC)
criticol

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Hi Dave.
Wow! a Big blockage suddenly giving way in a river as big as the "Buller", would certainly be a smashing sight that I would have liked to witness, and been there in the aftermath to have a fossick, as that should have caused the lazy bigger stuff to get its A into G.
Wouldnt want to be in the river in front of though.

Cheers---Colin.
roman holiday  
Posted : Tuesday, 22 June 2010 7:33:27 PM(UTC)
roman holiday

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Have to say a big thanks to those generous enough to share both their time and knowledge here. The motivation for me to get out fossicking is building up just like one of those blocked up river gorges. :)

Six more months before I get back in the country to begin my fossicking adventure. I'm hoping to meet some of you guys on the way round the islands.
kiwisouth  
Posted : Wednesday, 23 June 2010 10:29:46 AM(UTC)
kiwisouth

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Gidday Roman, at least the waether will hopefully be nice for you when you get back in country.

If you are coming through Marlborough, give me a holler. Bound to have some wine around the place.

I haven't said much about the gold in Marlborough but on the Northbank area (north of the Wairau River that is, gold was found amongst the quartz but I don't think it was very payable. Quartz Creek, Bartletts Creek and up Tophouse people pan ocassionally, then you have over the hill towards Linkwater, but that areas is now on private farm land I think. Can't remember waht it was called. Mahakipawa and Cullensville I think. Hit the books tonight.

Back to work
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criticol  
Posted : Wednesday, 23 June 2010 3:53:20 PM(UTC)
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Hi Dave.

"Many thanks" for letting a bit of your knowledge overflow into the forum.

This sort of thing is what people wish to see,(Especially those that are really interested,or dont know where to start.) To these people, little pieces of information like that can help immensely, as it may pertain to an area that they live in, but dont know much about it,as to the gold bearing possibilities of the local scene.

It can also show these persons that a bit of gold may be obtainable closer to them than having to Trek a million miles?(O.K. kilometers) away.

Keep up the good work!

Cheers, and Regards---Colin


x-terra steve  
Posted : Wednesday, 23 June 2010 4:47:37 PM(UTC)
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Hi Roman how you doin?
if you are passing through Nelson on ya travels let me know as there is room for a fellow fossicker to camp for a few nights.
Kiwisouth said something about wine?? hell yes the top of the south make some dam fine wine.
If you really get bitten by the bug there will be no return...
take care
Steve
roman holiday  
Posted : Thursday, 24 June 2010 3:05:19 PM(UTC)
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thanks for the generous offers guys. my plan is to buy a 4wd troupie converted to a camper [if I can find one] then start my travels. I have family with a farm near Waihi in the Coromandel [Waitekauri] so will start of there. but i hear from here there are better pickings down South. I'm quite interested in the top of the South Island... and notice some of the public fossicking ares border on national parks and no people. It is good to see a few of the posters here are based in the top of the South.... so will be looking forward to availing myself of the offered hospitality :)

bring back the gold standard!
Romans.
criticol  
Posted : Thursday, 24 June 2010 4:18:16 PM(UTC)
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Hi Roman.

Good to see that theres another local boy here.

Whats wrong with the "Waitekauri" area ? that you presume the South is better!

God, the place is riddled with gold bearing stringers as its far enough away from the Main reefs of Waihi and Karangahape,(smack in the middle of both those low grade bullion type areas.They are termed bullion type lodes because the hydrothermal water solutions that ciculated there were at a higher heat(approx 400-500 degrees C Upwards). Whereas at Waitikauri) the lodes were formed from lower temperature grades(approx 500-400 degrees C Downwards) consequently these solutions formed lots and lots of stringers that produced some amazing small rich patches, some of which would have been deposited in the waterways by the "Weathering" process.(as described elsewhere on the forum.)

Have you actually prospected your own backyard ? I would have!!

Cheers---Colin.
roman holiday  
Posted : Thursday, 24 June 2010 4:35:32 PM(UTC)
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Hi Colin,

I'm living ad working in the concrete jungle of Seoul, South Korea at the moment. Have had a great job at a good university for 5 years, but reckon it is time to get home. Interesting you mention that about the Waitekauri. Last time I was back for a holiday I stayed with my sister and her family who have a little farm right at the top of the Waitakauri valley. I remember her showing me around the old mining area... and mentioning Newcrest or Newmont were thinking of re-opening it?? I'm not sure of this... might have it wrong. I do remember her saying the previous mining crowd had made a mess of it and had to do quite a clean up job before closing it down..... more for us!

At the time, I hadn't really thought about fossicking, but had only got interested in buying a bit of gold. Now I have become more interested in fossicking... as it is starting to get too bloody expensive to buy :)

Since I've joined this site, I've been thinking a bit about the Waitakauri, and am guessing it will be a good place to start... also am fortunate to have a place to stay there. I looked on the map and noticed my sister's farm is borders a very large national park... apparently you can walk right through to Whangamata! I see John also lives in the Coromandel, which may be my first port of call in order to load up on the essential fossicking supplies. It is great to see yourself also in the area, as being a complete greenhorn I'll be looking to talk to those such as yourself with experience.

Roll on 2011,
Roman
criticol  
Posted : Thursday, 24 June 2010 4:36:23 PM(UTC)
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Hi Roman.

Almost forgot to tell you to check out this site if your looking for a campervan, it may throw one up thats suitable.

http://www.backpack-car.com/

Cheers and regards Colin.
kiwijw  
Posted : Saturday, 26 June 2010 1:05:23 PM(UTC)
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Edited by user Saturday, 9 July 2011 1:38:19 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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